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Adrian: Eugene.

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Thank you for joining us
here in your own back garden.

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Eugene: And it’s entirely
made out of ceramic.

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It’s a ceramic garden, this one,

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Adrian: it’s, Adrian: it’s lovely
to be here during the second KDW.

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Eugene: Yeah.

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I’m so happy to have you guys here.

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Yeah.

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You, you took a number of airplanes
and I don’t know, buses and what not.

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Eugene: Um, my name is Eugene Kavuma
Eugene: Director here at Kampala

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Design Week, this is our second year.

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Eugene: my role there is to, I
guess, run the vision and raise the

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money to fulfill the vision, Eugene:
in the ultimate sense of things.

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This is a very second edition.

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Eugene: we started off much earlier
than we did last year this time.

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Eugene: we started off, we started with
a workshop on the 21st, Eugene: or.

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Of October, and it’s going to
run until the 2nd of November.

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So technically it is a
bit more than a week.

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Yeah.

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Eugene: we are today, Saturday,
second November, 2019 is the

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last day of the festival.

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I am Eugene: relieved.

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Eugene: we’re left with two
workshops and a closing evening,

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and, Eugene: I can’t wait.

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Adrian: Well, so tell me about,
about the vision for Kampala

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Design Week, for those who aren’t

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familiar.

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Eugene: Yea Eugene: the vision of
Kampala Design Week, Eugene: is to

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a, celebrate good design, Eugene:
highlight like really awesome designers,

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but also create opportunities for
designers to connect with, you know,

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potential better, more worthy markets.

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And maybe that may mean creating
a market for design products here.

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Eugene: and for us in order to do
that, Eugene: for the next four years,

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Eugene: main focus is on upskilling
the designers with whom we connect with

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and just providing opportunities to,
to collaborate, to exchange, to grow in

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terms of their skills, their networks.

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And then off of those, Eugene:
Designers that we would have

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consistently interact with.

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We hope that we’ll create, Eugene:
that will give them an opportunity

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to create output that will then get
people to appreciate good design.

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Adrian: Okay Adrian: so who Adrian:
has been a highlight for you this year?

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Eugene: A highlight for me this year
has been the guys from NEON who I met,

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Eugene: when we were together in Addis.

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We actually did a recording
together, Eugene: through, Eugene:

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the ‘Architecture, Design and
Fashion’ grant from British Council.

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Eugene: we managed to, so we applied
for it with Adengo Architecture,

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Kampala Design Week and NEON,
and we were granted it, Eugene:

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which was really, really awesome.

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So we had neon over, which
is really cool because.

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I met NEON in Addis.

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I met NEON in Nairobi, and
then I hosted NEON in Uganda.

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That was really cool for me.

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It’s like a real proper demonstration
of their whole connection thing.

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Sure.

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I also ran, ran into them in
London, out of the train man,

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like you do, haha.

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Yeah.

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You just, you just dropped by.

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You know?

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You can say,

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Adrian: yeah, they told me that.

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Adrian: So, but tell us about actually
the British Council a partnership,

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because it’s clear that the British
Council are trying to do a lot to

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support design out in East Africa.

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Eugene: All right.

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Eugene: so that’s been Rashida who
I met in a bar is an arts manager.

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Eugene: and the British
Council arts manager.

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And like the first time I had a
conversation with her about Kampala

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Design Week, Eugene: I thought, Eugene:
that’s high enthusiasm and going

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like, no, we should really meet up.

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We should talk.

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I was like, Eugene: yeah, cause Eugene:
we had just finished our first year and.

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We had made some notes on social
media, but, Eugene: if you know

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the plan and then you see the
execution it’s rarely the same thing.

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So I was feeling really Eugene: about
the festival, Eugene: but determined

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to, to figure out a way to make it work.

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So I’m talking to this random person
and then I mentioned Kampala Design

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Week, and then they get excited
and they said, no, tell me more.

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I’m like, one, two, three, four

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Eugene: she’s like, no, no, no.

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Tell me more.

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Eugene: And then we exchanged emails and
she gave me a call and send me an email.

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And.

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Eugene: for, I feel like she’s, Eugene:
endeavored, Eugene: to, to, to, to, to,

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to expose us to all the opportunities
that British Council kind of offers

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from trainings to like, opportunities
to apply for grants for, and she’s also

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strict about reporting, like, I guess,
cause she has to be, that’s her role.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Eugene: yeah.

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And the, there’ve been like, so.

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Like the, arts education or the.

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Any kind of design education, I’m
guessing we’ll have to start somewhere.

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Eugene: and we, Eugene: we, Eugene: we
feel blessed that they’re considering as

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an opportunity to, to be used as a medium
to develop the design space much better.

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Yeah.

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Adrian: Cause that, that kind of
all started, I guess for us with

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the ‘Design Connections’ program,
Adrian: Juli from the team.

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Adrian: was invited to go in 2017.

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Then you, I was in London during
2018 anyway, and then you were

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invited in 2019 and I think Meti,
actually 2016 from Addis Design Week.

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Eugene: Interesting.

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So it

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Adrian: seems like, yeah, that’s, it’s,
Adrian: it’s a program for festival

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and museum directors, isn’t it?

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So I think it’s definitely something
that more people, well, if more

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people are made aware of it, I’m sure
they’ll have many, much more interest.

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I think it’s a really great program.

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Yeah.

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Adrian: and then you applied for
the biennales and festivals grant.

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Eugene: Yes Eugene: to bring a
connection from the UK, Eugene:

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of, Eugene: and, and we got that.

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And that’s how we got NEON Eugene:
my time at the design connection

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thing, yo, was, was eye opening,
you know, as Kampala Design Week.

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We.

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The idea of upskilling
is not just theoretical.

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We want to go the practical route too.

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But like practical education is
how it almost comes off as is.

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That it’s either vocational or
theoretical and there’s not many

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universities that are playing hard
to Eugene: to like mix those two.

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But also there’s the idea that, Eugene:
Like if you focus too much on the

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theoretic, sorry, on the practical,
your, your ceiling is limited.

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You can only be this kind
of person or that kind of

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person or something like that.

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Yeah.

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Eugene: but we’ve.

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With my time at DC at the
Makerversity as a design connection

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Eugene: I just kept thinking about how
when we, when we, when we went to visit

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the Makerversity, and so how they have
all this equipment laid out and how they

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have managed to turn it into a business.

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That for me was, was pretty exciting
and I’m trying to figure out how to.

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To adjust that to our space.

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Yeah.

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Adrian: Okay, great.

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Do you want to tell us more about that

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Eugene: or, yeah.

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Eugene: how loud are they?

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Adrian: Oh, I can’t hear them actually.

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Eugene: Awesome as getting worried.

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Eugene: Yeah.

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Eugene: so the make, Eugene:
idea for the maker space is that.

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There’s going to be, it’s valuable
to have theoretical education

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alongside, Eugene: practical education.

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And we hope that’s, for example,
that fellowship that we work with in

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partnership with a particular university.

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Eugene: that, that fellowship, the
fellows out of that will create

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things that will contribute to
the design weeks that come up.

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Hmm.

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That would be a start of their works
and maybe then the works can move

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to places like Nairobi Design Week.

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Design Week Addis Ababa and the
London Design Biennale etc.

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Eugene: through all the
connections that we built.

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So that’s, that is a ultimate
longterm plan for it.

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And we hope that then these fellows will
attract, you know, better quality fellows

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and, Eugene: we’ll, we’ll generally
have an increase improvement and

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marked improvement in terms of design,
education, but also design output.

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Yeah.

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Adrian: Okay, great.

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So, Adrian: I wanted to go
back to KDW because a lot has

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happened in the last week.

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So tell us a bit about your,
the events that you’ve, you’ve

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been running personally.

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Eugene: I had one main workshop
that I was paying attention to.

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Eugene: the, the everyday workshop,
Eugene: with, Eugene: Adengo

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architecture and NEON, Eugene:
the one that was supported by

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the British council, ADF grant.

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Eugene: so that’s obviously
because, Eugene: the main reporting

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person was going to be me.

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A lot of stuff had to.

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I was overlooking a
lot of stuff with that.

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Eugene: but that I also had the
team have a team that’s been

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running the rest of the design week.

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Eugene: and there’s, there’s
Daudi Ogutu who’s been doing

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a lot of our social media.

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Eugene: his company Kafunda
Creative, came on board like.

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Exactly 40 days to the design week.

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And, Eugene: they took over the
management and development of the website.

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We had no website last year.

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We had no website until
maybe 45 days ago actually.

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Eugene: they took over that
and they’re like fixing it up,

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basically flying the plane as the.

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Building the plane as they fly it, which
is, which is very, Eugene: brave of them.

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Eugene: but also Elijah who has been
really fundamental in managing the

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program and solving all the problems
that were showing up in my absence.

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Eugene: Patrick, who, Eugene: Was in
the earlier part, Eugene: pushing the,

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was the festival director and then at
the process developed into him, Eugene:

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becoming a content creator throughout
the whole, Eugene: the whole time.

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And then Millie, who, who really did an
awesome job doing the administration on

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the, during the, during the ADF, Eugene:
‘the everyday’ workshop, just because.

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I couldn’t be in five
places at the same time.

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So sometimes I’d leave her there and she
would solve whatever Eugene: comes up.

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Eugene: while I’m elsewhere.

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Eugene: working stuff out.

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But we’ve also been blessed to
have, Eugene: like some awesome.

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Like partners and curators.

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So the curators for this year, Eugene:
how we do ETA in Kampala is that we,

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I reached out to someone who I know
is strong within the space, within a

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particular field of design, and ask
them if they’d be interested in like

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building our holiday around that.

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Field, and then they
figured out how to do that.

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00:10:22,714 –> 00:10:26,344
Eugene: and our curator for the UX
UI, Michael really did a good job,

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Eugene: curator for the product design
there, but also introduced, Eugene:

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a really interesting conversation
that, Eugene: design and the political

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and how, how, how, how can design,
how does design interfere or.

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Interact with the individual
and because the individual has

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autonomy, they are political.

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So how are those two things there?

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Eugene: she did a good job just
like managing a conversation

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on that really touchy subject.

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Eugene: that there, there was a lot of
strong feelings around the conversation.

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Yeah.

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Eugene: Yeah.

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Eugene: So a charity who did the
product, Eugene: product design day

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and like how the organization that
she works for DWB ‘design without

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00:11:06,479 –> 00:11:11,089
borders’, what does Africa like also
owned, took up and on the day and did

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studio to us and did a lot of training
and demonstration of that staff, etc.

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Etc.

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Eugene: Who else?

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Yes, and then we had sound
design, which has a, and we had,

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we had to do two as on Thursday.

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We just went really to design without
borders and creatures animation.

222
00:11:26,689 –> 00:11:27,949
So it’s an animation studio.

223
00:11:27,949 –> 00:11:29,449
They’re a product design studio.

224
00:11:29,799 –> 00:11:32,299
Eugene: and then we also
had the sound design.

225
00:11:32,299 –> 00:11:34,569
this was at the Milligan
cultural foundation.

226
00:11:34,909 –> 00:11:39,189
Eugene: this is awesome guys like also
gave us like sound on the opening night.

227
00:11:39,699 –> 00:11:42,009
They like, Eugene: talking,
speaking to their founder.

228
00:11:42,009 –> 00:11:46,239
He was like, I understand like
beginning, like the settings of things.

229
00:11:46,239 –> 00:11:47,169
So it’s, it’s kawa.

230
00:11:47,709 –> 00:11:49,929
Eugene: but together with.

231
00:11:51,019 –> 00:11:54,049
He works for a thing called,
let me try and remember it.

232
00:11:57,774 –> 00:12:00,754
Together with Enock Ikiriza,
Eugene: from the usual suspects.

233
00:12:00,804 –> 00:12:04,724
Eugene: it’s like they curated
an amazing sound design.

234
00:12:04,734 –> 00:12:09,024
They, I did not, I didn’t have the
opportunity to drop by and I’m waiting

235
00:12:09,024 –> 00:12:11,574
for like a, a review, a report of that.

236
00:12:11,934 –> 00:12:15,894
But from the photos I saw, there was a
literal fire side, which was really cool.

237
00:12:16,214 –> 00:12:16,964
Eugene: and.

238
00:12:17,354 –> 00:12:20,444
And the conversation, you know,
Andrew, our lead photographer,

239
00:12:20,534 –> 00:12:24,204
was sharing about how, Eugene: the
conversations were really deep and

240
00:12:24,204 –> 00:12:26,724
awesome waiting to hear the recording.

241
00:12:26,754 –> 00:12:29,934
The other thing that we’ve done is,
Eugene: for all our fireside chats, we’ve,

242
00:12:29,934 –> 00:12:34,784
we’ve actually had a podcast kind of
recording, Eugene: for them that we’re

243
00:12:34,784 –> 00:12:38,814
going to add onto a website, Eugene: in
and together with all the various videos

244
00:12:38,814 –> 00:12:40,644
and etc and content that we put together.

245
00:12:41,034 –> 00:12:41,274
Yeah.

246
00:12:41,814 –> 00:12:42,414
Adrian: Nice.

247
00:12:43,674 –> 00:12:46,164
Well, I want to hear more
about that in a minute.

248
00:12:46,614 –> 00:12:48,534
About the outputs from the festival.

249
00:12:48,864 –> 00:12:53,274
And I wanted to go back to the
first project we were talking about

250
00:12:53,304 –> 00:12:54,954
the one with the British council.

251
00:12:54,984 –> 00:12:55,764
The everyday.

252
00:12:55,824 –> 00:12:56,064
Yeah.

253
00:12:56,404 –> 00:13:02,914
Adrian: because the, well, you hosted it
at Yamasen restaurant and I’d just like

254
00:13:02,914 –> 00:13:07,414
you to go in into more detail because I
think the project’s really interesting and

255
00:13:07,414 –> 00:13:08,964
I think, Adrian: first of all, the way.

256
00:13:09,534 –> 00:13:14,604
That you used an object that already
exists in a technique, and then how

257
00:13:14,844 –> 00:13:18,774
that ended up creating so many other
things that were very different to it.

258
00:13:19,194 –> 00:13:19,614
Eugene: Yeah.

259
00:13:19,944 –> 00:13:24,094
Eugene: So I like my role, the
role that Kampala Design Week

260
00:13:24,114 –> 00:13:27,234
was playing in this particular
project was really the organizer.

261
00:13:27,564 –> 00:13:31,974
So I had the opportunity to be
both outside and inside, so not

262
00:13:31,974 –> 00:13:35,454
know exactly what the discussions
were when the happening, but

263
00:13:35,454 –> 00:13:37,224
also see the progress of things.

264
00:13:37,224 –> 00:13:37,974
And then have.

265
00:13:38,039 –> 00:13:41,159
They’ll put you needed to, to ask
people questions after they figured

266
00:13:41,159 –> 00:13:43,649
Eugene: out, like after they know
what they are trained to do with this.

267
00:13:43,989 –> 00:13:47,979
Eugene: it was a very, from what I could
see, no one knew where it was going

268
00:13:48,009 –> 00:13:49,749
and were surprised by the end of it.

269
00:13:50,089 –> 00:13:54,109
Eugene: but so the general idea
was we took an everyday object.

270
00:13:54,169 –> 00:13:58,339
We wanted to take an everyday object,
deconstruct it, and see what new

271
00:13:58,339 –> 00:13:59,629
ways in which it could perform.

272
00:13:59,879 –> 00:14:02,439
Eugene: so in this case, it was a three
legged stool with, Eugene: with, Eugene:

273
00:14:02,439 –> 00:14:06,589
Cable running around, cane running around
it, that then creates a stool and a

274
00:14:06,589 –> 00:14:13,389
really three leg base, which is really
strong, and then a gap, a space to sit on.

275
00:14:13,719 –> 00:14:16,239
So there are also cultural
connotations attached to it.

276
00:14:16,239 –> 00:14:19,749
When the carpenters who put it
together, how they described it,

277
00:14:19,749 –> 00:14:23,929
they call it, Eugene: it’s commonly
known as mama from mother is cooking.

278
00:14:24,229 –> 00:14:26,329
But that’s actually not
what it was known for.

279
00:14:26,329 –> 00:14:29,659
It was known, Eugene: to
be, Eugene: to be used by.

280
00:14:30,514 –> 00:14:35,824
By like the real proper Muganda, the woman
would never be caught dead sitting on it.

281
00:14:36,274 –> 00:14:36,664
Yeah.

282
00:14:36,824 –> 00:14:40,724
Eugene: so they needed, because it,
because it had an open underneath.

283
00:14:40,824 –> 00:14:41,724
Eugene: So like.

284
00:14:41,849 –> 00:14:43,769
You’d never sat on that thing.

285
00:14:44,069 –> 00:14:46,589
And the first time a Royal
Muganda woman could sit on it,

286
00:14:46,999 –> 00:14:49,169
was when you had a pillow on it.

287
00:14:49,349 –> 00:14:53,429
So there are also those interesting
cultural connotations of getting something

288
00:14:53,429 –> 00:14:58,439
that’s looked so overlooked here, and
then making it perform, and especially

289
00:14:58,439 –> 00:15:01,189
in a space as high quality as Yamasen.

290
00:15:01,559 –> 00:15:04,409
So those, those two contradictions
of Eugene: something in

291
00:15:04,409 –> 00:15:05,549
such a beautiful place.

292
00:15:05,999 –> 00:15:06,509
Eugene: Yeah.

293
00:15:06,899 –> 00:15:12,179
And so together with Adengo
Architecture neon and about 10 students,

294
00:15:13,289 –> 00:15:17,229
architecture, graphics, design, Eugene:
we had a lawyer in there, I think.

295
00:15:17,649 –> 00:15:18,009
Yeah.

296
00:15:18,039 –> 00:15:20,109
Eugene: product and
industrial designers, etc.

297
00:15:20,439 –> 00:15:22,479
All these 10 came together and.

298
00:15:23,054 –> 00:15:25,574
We’re given, you know,
steps through the challenge.

299
00:15:25,604 –> 00:15:28,274
The first step was, can
you deconstruct these?

300
00:15:28,334 –> 00:15:30,434
Can you take it apart
and put it back together?

301
00:15:30,734 –> 00:15:32,484
The carpenters will make this thing came.

302
00:15:32,504 –> 00:15:33,614
They demonstrated it.

303
00:15:33,974 –> 00:15:36,828
Then people realized Eugene: this
thing is really difficult to put

304
00:15:36,828 –> 00:15:39,228
together and, and then take apart.

305
00:15:39,568 –> 00:15:42,878
Eugene: and then the next place, the
next question was, what can you in, in

306
00:15:42,878 –> 00:15:47,348
groups, what can you do with it that
will either make it move, that will

307
00:15:47,348 –> 00:15:49,438
make it, Eugene: build or that would.

308
00:15:50,383 –> 00:15:52,003
I don’t remember what the third one was.

309
00:15:52,978 –> 00:15:53,278
Yeah.

310
00:15:53,308 –> 00:15:57,298
But in the students went what I had,
and like some cut it up into bits,

311
00:15:57,478 –> 00:16:01,408
some figured out that if you try to
straighten out the material, like some

312
00:16:01,408 –> 00:16:05,338
learned material, basics, like, or follow
the material grain, things like that.

313
00:16:05,728 –> 00:16:09,238
Eugene: and then in the end they
went back to the same idea of

314
00:16:09,298 –> 00:16:10,828
a solid basae, which is the.

315
00:16:11,203 –> 00:16:14,383
I’m taking off the nod
from the original stool.

316
00:16:14,383 –> 00:16:18,013
So they built a solid base on the
ground and then put cane on top.

317
00:16:18,093 –> 00:16:22,593
Eugene: and, and this, in this case, it
came from being a stool that is used by

318
00:16:22,593 –> 00:16:27,183
a single individual into a structure that
is experienced by the full body, which

319
00:16:27,183 –> 00:16:29,343
was like mind blowing in that context.

320
00:16:29,343 –> 00:16:29,703
Yeah.

321
00:16:30,013 –> 00:16:31,543
Eugene: and we hope that.

322
00:16:32,198 –> 00:16:33,878
Design week as Kampala Design Week.

323
00:16:33,878 –> 00:16:38,768
We hope that we’re going to put the full
story of this properly together already.

324
00:16:38,828 –> 00:16:40,898
We already have part of it ready.

325
00:16:40,998 –> 00:16:44,838
Eugene: but the full one, including
the stories of the students and

326
00:16:44,838 –> 00:16:47,778
like the full stories of the
students and their experiences in

327
00:16:47,778 –> 00:16:49,578
both the written photographic form.

328
00:16:49,948 –> 00:16:52,678
Eugene: just to demonstrate and
share the value of collaboration.

329
00:16:53,008 –> 00:16:53,428
Cause.

330
00:16:54,708 –> 00:16:55,768
That was not know.

331
00:16:56,538 –> 00:16:56,898
Yeah.

332
00:16:58,098 –> 00:16:58,308
That’s

333
00:16:58,308 –> 00:16:58,908
Adrian: interesting.

334
00:16:58,908 –> 00:16:59,118
Yeah.

335
00:16:59,148 –> 00:17:00,678
I really enjoyed the project.

336
00:17:00,678 –> 00:17:06,198
I think the fact that you created a
large installation piece was good.

337
00:17:06,348 –> 00:17:06,678
You know?

338
00:17:06,678 –> 00:17:10,398
It was really a strong addition
to, because it let people feel

339
00:17:10,398 –> 00:17:11,778
the project in a different way.

340
00:17:12,088 –> 00:17:13,018
Eugene: Yeah, yeah.

341
00:17:13,318 –> 00:17:15,778
Someone called it the
green moving Caterpillar.

342
00:17:15,898 –> 00:17:16,798
Adrian: Yes, yes.

343
00:17:16,858 –> 00:17:18,298
I believe I heard that as well.

344
00:17:18,298 –> 00:17:19,288
But yes.

345
00:17:19,318 –> 00:17:21,808
Sleeping, Caterpillar sleeping, I believe.

346
00:17:21,808 –> 00:17:22,108
Yeah.

347
00:17:22,198 –> 00:17:24,778
It goes from green to
yellow and orange, and

348
00:17:25,368 –> 00:17:26,698
Eugene: psychadelic

349
00:17:27,048 –> 00:17:27,458
Adrian: yeah.

350
00:17:27,458 –> 00:17:27,808
Yeah.

351
00:17:28,318 –> 00:17:32,518
But it looks like something that you could
use as a space for quite, quite versatile.

352
00:17:34,518 –> 00:17:34,698
Adrian: Okay.

353
00:17:34,848 –> 00:17:39,438
So tell me about, you said you’ve been
recording podcasts, you’ve been doing,

354
00:17:39,568 –> 00:17:41,248
Adrian: documentation of the festival.

355
00:17:41,668 –> 00:17:43,048
What can we look forward to?

356
00:17:43,048 –> 00:17:44,368
If we miss the festival?

357
00:17:45,808 –> 00:17:47,788
Eugene: you should come to 2020.

358
00:17:47,998 –> 00:17:49,108
Eugene: that’s a good start.

359
00:17:49,198 –> 00:17:49,408
Then.

360
00:17:49,408 –> 00:17:51,058
You won’t have to miss anything.

361
00:17:51,448 –> 00:17:51,988
Yeah.

362
00:17:52,378 –> 00:17:55,688
Eugene: but, Eugene: the three,
the four fireside chats that,

363
00:17:55,788 –> 00:17:58,708
Eugene: have been conversations
with designers, Eugene: exploring.

364
00:17:59,903 –> 00:18:04,013
Eugene: subjects such as, Eugene: the
value of UX, UI and how heritage, Eugene:

365
00:18:04,013 –> 00:18:06,223
impact that, which we did at SafeBoda.

366
00:18:06,543 –> 00:18:09,693
Eugene: and then the ‘design
and the political’, which we

367
00:18:09,693 –> 00:18:11,243
did at, Eugene: at, at Goethe.

368
00:18:11,843 –> 00:18:15,413
And then yesterday’s, fireside chat.

369
00:18:15,873 –> 00:18:18,693
Eugene: and then this evening,
this afternoon, Eugene: gaming and

370
00:18:18,693 –> 00:18:21,993
graphics design, Eugene: you know,
panel conversation fireside talk.

371
00:18:22,558 –> 00:18:25,798
Eugene: so those would be, does that
all going to be available in audio.

372
00:18:26,238 –> 00:18:29,478
Eugene: Primarily in audio
and then, and then write ups?

373
00:18:29,528 –> 00:18:32,288
Eugene: the reason it was
in, there’s far less video.

374
00:18:33,533 –> 00:18:36,623
Eugene: this year is maybe
because I’m a control freak and

375
00:18:36,623 –> 00:18:38,093
I know that it will have to be.

376
00:18:38,633 –> 00:18:41,063
Eugene: but that will be,
we’ll figure that out next year

377
00:18:41,063 –> 00:18:42,093
when we’re raised more money.

378
00:18:42,143 –> 00:18:44,633
Eugene: How about you, how is
Nairobi Design Week coming?

379
00:18:45,263 –> 00:18:45,643
Adrian: Good.

380
00:18:45,933 –> 00:18:49,293
Eugene: so we’ll get to around 70 and
then wake up at like 50 and go like,

381
00:18:50,673 –> 00:18:54,183
Adrian: I don’t think it’s possible to
forget, but I, yeah, I think it’s a.

382
00:18:55,033 –> 00:18:58,663
Adrian: in the time right now where
it’s things are coming together, but

383
00:18:58,663 –> 00:19:00,373
definitely feeling the time pressure.

384
00:19:00,493 –> 00:19:04,903
I think one six months ticks,
you know, that you’ve got

385
00:19:04,903 –> 00:19:06,463
less than half the time you

386
00:19:06,463 –> 00:19:06,943
Eugene: had.

387
00:19:07,423 –> 00:19:08,323
Adrian: Yeah.

388
00:19:08,323 –> 00:19:10,903
So that’s what it starts really hitting.

389
00:19:11,743 –> 00:19:12,193
Eugene: Yeah.

390
00:19:12,883 –> 00:19:16,243
Adrian: But you guys also
do monthly events right?

391
00:19:16,488 –> 00:19:16,968
Eugene: Yeah.

392
00:19:16,968 –> 00:19:21,998
So, Eugene: we ran a thing called the
design garage, and this is a knowledge

393
00:19:21,998 –> 00:19:24,968
sharing space where we get, we.

394
00:19:26,448 –> 00:19:30,468
So I’m lucky that I played in the
creative space for a while before the

395
00:19:30,518 –> 00:19:32,358
Kampala Design Week idea came through.

396
00:19:32,598 –> 00:19:36,558
So there’s people I grew up watching on
the sidelines getting bad ass at what they

397
00:19:36,558 –> 00:19:43,048
do, and now I, I didn’t become friends
with them because I knew Kampala Design

398
00:19:43,048 –> 00:19:45,828
Week is coming up, but we just happened.

399
00:19:46,048 –> 00:19:48,088
To share so many interests.

400
00:19:48,538 –> 00:19:51,828
And now there’s a bunch of those
that, Eugene: like we call on to, to

401
00:19:51,828 –> 00:19:55,288
come and speak to, Eugene: students
and young and young professionals

402
00:19:55,288 –> 00:19:57,718
who are just getting into the space.

403
00:19:57,768 –> 00:20:02,508
Eugene: some of these guys share their
stories about how to fail and like

404
00:20:02,748 –> 00:20:07,078
disappear for awhile and come back and
make a fresh start, Eugene: about how to

405
00:20:07,828 –> 00:20:13,028
transition from career X to career Y and
how to, Eugene: generally be able to…

406
00:20:13,933 –> 00:20:17,983
to apply your design thinking skills
to anything from relationships

407
00:20:17,983 –> 00:20:22,363
to politics, to be economy
and I, all that kind of stuff.

408
00:20:22,723 –> 00:20:26,093
It’s usually, Eugene: There are,
there are longer conversations and

409
00:20:26,093 –> 00:20:28,043
singular focused conversations.

410
00:20:28,463 –> 00:20:31,043
Eugene: they’re fireside
chats, but with one panelist.

411
00:20:31,703 –> 00:20:32,003
Yeah.

412
00:20:32,063 –> 00:20:35,213
So that’s what we usually go
for, and it happens once a month.

413
00:20:35,243 –> 00:20:36,173
This year we.

414
00:20:36,453 –> 00:20:39,483
We were lucky that we
won earlier in the year.

415
00:20:40,383 –> 00:20:44,793
We won a small grant from Goethe Zentrum
/Institut, and we test run the idea of

416
00:20:44,793 –> 00:20:46,913
design garages, Eugene: outside of town.

417
00:20:46,943 –> 00:20:51,653
Because I, in our first year, we
ran them fully in Kampala because

418
00:20:51,683 –> 00:20:54,203
it’s near the costs of ours.

419
00:20:55,043 –> 00:20:59,303
The taxation is mainly, Eugene:
facilitating, you know, the friends

420
00:20:59,323 –> 00:21:01,163
transport, refund or something like that.

421
00:21:01,493 –> 00:21:05,813
But we really wanted to go outside and
going to universities and see how does

422
00:21:05,813 –> 00:21:08,363
this idea, you know, connect with them.

423
00:21:08,753 –> 00:21:11,733
And, and this year we’ve
studied, we’ve had a number of,

424
00:21:11,733 –> 00:21:13,583
of learnings in that regard.

425
00:21:13,683 –> 00:21:17,073
Eugene: so wait to see how to
adjust it so it can, work next year.

426
00:21:17,373 –> 00:21:18,633
Adrian: So who have you hosted?

427
00:21:18,723 –> 00:21:20,733
Adrian: how are you, how have you adapted.

428
00:21:21,613 –> 00:21:24,733
Eugene: so we, we’ve learned who
have, we hosted, Eugene: again,

429
00:21:24,733 –> 00:21:26,533
Charity Mugisha and about curators.

430
00:21:27,043 –> 00:21:29,563
She keeps the from design without borders.

431
00:21:29,563 –> 00:21:29,773
Yeah.

432
00:21:30,823 –> 00:21:34,893
And, Eugene: together with her, went
down to Uganda matters university.

433
00:21:35,223 –> 00:21:37,323
It’s in, cause it’s about
two hours out of town.

434
00:21:37,833 –> 00:21:38,403
Eugene: Yeah.

435
00:21:38,433 –> 00:21:42,993
And she has a background in
architecture and in like, I think

436
00:21:43,173 –> 00:21:45,003
graphics design or something like that.

437
00:21:45,003 –> 00:21:47,553
She, she went to some dope university.

438
00:21:49,143 –> 00:21:51,473
I don’t remember which, and I
just remember that when I Googled

439
00:21:51,473 –> 00:21:54,783
it, I didn’t see that coming.

440
00:21:55,173 –> 00:21:55,653
Yeah.

441
00:21:55,733 –> 00:21:56,663
Eugene: but also bef.

442
00:21:58,613 –> 00:21:58,823
Yeah.

443
00:21:58,823 –> 00:22:02,543
So we had her we had,
we’ve had an animator.

444
00:22:02,873 –> 00:22:08,153
We’ve had, Eugene: a gastronomist a
chef, Eugene: come and share how they use

445
00:22:08,153 –> 00:22:10,643
design in their food and stuff like that.

446
00:22:11,103 –> 00:22:15,393
Eugene: we’ve had another architect
who was exploring how to use abstract

447
00:22:15,393 –> 00:22:18,363
thinking to be able to solve,
Eugene: things that come your way.

448
00:22:18,903 –> 00:22:19,383
Yeah.

449
00:22:19,413 –> 00:22:21,603
And then the design
week planning took over.

450
00:22:23,743 –> 00:22:27,413
Adrian: So you mentioned, Adrian: that
you’ve been in the creative industry

451
00:22:27,413 –> 00:22:31,313
for some time, for quite some time, and
you’ve managed to meet all these people.

452
00:22:31,313 –> 00:22:33,893
So obviously besides Kampala design

453
00:22:33,893 –> 00:22:34,193
Eugene: week.

454
00:22:35,018 –> 00:22:36,008
Adrian: You have a life?

455
00:22:36,518 –> 00:22:37,358
Eugene: I do.

456
00:22:37,448 –> 00:22:38,168
I live.

457
00:22:39,188 –> 00:22:39,698
Yeah.

458
00:22:39,808 –> 00:22:41,998
Eugene: I’m a, I’m a photographer.

459
00:22:42,058 –> 00:22:45,058
Eugene: but also business
development director for a content

460
00:22:45,058 –> 00:22:46,918
creation firm called eight media.

461
00:22:47,328 –> 00:22:51,658
Eugene: and most all of our, our
clientele fall within the, Eugene:

462
00:22:51,658 –> 00:22:54,298
the human rights and democracy space.

463
00:22:54,643 –> 00:22:59,143
Eugene: we have figured out how to
tell those very tricky questions and

464
00:22:59,143 –> 00:23:02,893
still remain low-key, Eugene: in, in
our work, Eugene: because it’s, it’s

465
00:23:02,893 –> 00:23:04,723
useful to be able to do that as well.

466
00:23:05,213 –> 00:23:06,143
Eugene: I, yeah.

467
00:23:06,263 –> 00:23:10,553
I also ran a twin travel, Eugene: and
studying, Eugene: Product design, you

468
00:23:10,553 –> 00:23:12,683
know, not really studying carpentry.

469
00:23:13,013 –> 00:23:17,053
So I can be, Eugene: I have a few
ideas that I want to test out and

470
00:23:17,053 –> 00:23:18,523
see how they get onto the market.

471
00:23:18,973 –> 00:23:19,663
Adrian: Okay.

472
00:23:20,053 –> 00:23:21,403
I’m looking forward to seeing those.

473
00:23:21,493 –> 00:23:21,973
Eugene: Yeah.

474
00:23:22,033 –> 00:23:22,363
Yeah.

475
00:23:22,423 –> 00:23:25,523
Adrian: I might’ve even seen them
in your house and not realizing,

476
00:23:26,713 –> 00:23:27,083
Eugene: no.

477
00:23:27,923 –> 00:23:33,913
But a primary passion is, I really loved
sound and, Eugene: I enjoy photography.

478
00:23:34,673 –> 00:23:35,123
Yeah.

479
00:23:35,213 –> 00:23:39,833
I have a bet coming up that if I
don’t, if I don’t run an exhibition,

480
00:23:39,833 –> 00:23:44,033
the first one in my life, I will
have to pay my business partner at

481
00:23:44,033 –> 00:23:46,373
eight media, 2 million shillings.

482
00:23:46,463 –> 00:23:51,813
So I keep saying this out loud, so
I remember how much I have to lose.

483
00:23:52,553 –> 00:23:53,783
That’s a, that’s about,

484
00:23:54,143 –> 00:23:56,163
Adrian: it’s a lot of money anyways…

485
00:23:56,163 –> 00:23:59,053
700USD

486
00:23:59,283 –> 00:23:59,803
Eugene: as a bet?

487
00:24:00,453 –> 00:24:01,693
Well you

488
00:24:01,693 –> 00:24:03,523
Adrian: have to make the exhibit

489
00:24:03,523 –> 00:24:03,613
work

490
00:24:03,668 –> 00:24:06,398
Eugene: I have to make the
exhibit work now cause I’ve been

491
00:24:06,398 –> 00:24:07,658
talking about it for a while.

492
00:24:07,658 –> 00:24:10,808
I’m collecting my works, but every
time I look at data I’m like.

493
00:24:11,528 –> 00:24:11,618
Yeah.

494
00:24:11,858 –> 00:24:12,908
It could do better.

495
00:24:13,028 –> 00:24:13,538
Yeah.

496
00:24:13,598 –> 00:24:15,878
So now he’s like, fine, let you do better.

497
00:24:15,878 –> 00:24:20,198
I just pay me 700 and a,
you can keep doing better.

498
00:24:20,228 –> 00:24:22,298
So I, I really don’t to
give away free money.

499
00:24:22,828 –> 00:24:26,068
Well, I mean, I’ve seen, I’ve seen
the photography, I like the, some of

500
00:24:26,068 –> 00:24:27,598
the framing and so on that you have.

501
00:24:27,688 –> 00:24:28,138
Yeah.

502
00:24:28,318 –> 00:24:30,628
It’s intention that, that we’re
recording outside the house.

503
00:24:31,278 –> 00:24:32,428
I’m also private.

504
00:24:32,728 –> 00:24:33,628
Ah ha.

505
00:24:33,668 –> 00:24:35,788
Adrian: Ha ha ha.

506
00:24:35,948 –> 00:24:36,968
Very interesting.

507
00:24:37,868 –> 00:24:40,788
Adrian: well, we’re, Adrian: enjoying
the Kampala sunshine out here.

508
00:24:40,788 –> 00:24:45,108
I think what I do enjoy in Kampala
actually, there’s far less noise around

509
00:24:45,108 –> 00:24:48,288
us than they might be in other cities.

510
00:24:48,378 –> 00:24:50,118
And it’s very green.

511
00:24:50,298 –> 00:24:50,718
Yeah.

512
00:24:51,198 –> 00:24:51,768
Is it like

513
00:24:51,798 –> 00:24:52,668
Eugene: this all year round?

514
00:24:52,808 –> 00:24:53,288
Eugene: no.

515
00:24:53,468 –> 00:24:53,798
No.

516
00:24:53,918 –> 00:24:55,718
Well, the, the silence, I guess.

517
00:24:56,143 –> 00:24:59,693
Eugene: it’s usually this way,
but it does get pretty dusty.

518
00:25:00,133 –> 00:25:03,163
Eugene: yeah, I do tend to come
back home with colorful hair.

519
00:25:03,763 –> 00:25:04,093
Yeah.

520
00:25:04,153 –> 00:25:07,693
Because the roads are very expressive.

521
00:25:07,833 –> 00:25:12,213
Every time someone rumbles over them,
they, they express their anger with dust.

522
00:25:14,433 –> 00:25:14,963
Adrian: Yeah.

523
00:25:15,773 –> 00:25:16,543
Sounds familiar.

524
00:25:16,613 –> 00:25:16,773
Yeah.

525
00:25:16,773 –> 00:25:17,353
Cool.

526
00:25:18,253 –> 00:25:18,583
Cool.

527
00:25:18,583 –> 00:25:23,913
So tell me more about some of
your other partners at KDW.

528
00:25:25,168 –> 00:25:28,058
Eugene: I’ll go, I’ll start with
today’s, today’s, Eugene: tribe.

529
00:25:28,568 –> 00:25:29,558
So it’s interesting.

530
00:25:29,558 –> 00:25:32,748
There’s, Eugene: there’s an
animation collective called tribe.

531
00:25:33,268 –> 00:25:37,958
Eugene: and then there’s a company
within that called Elupe Comix.

532
00:25:38,308 –> 00:25:42,308
Those guys are, Eugene: under the,
that they’re, one of the, Eugene:

533
00:25:42,308 –> 00:25:44,288
team members is called Lorianne.

534
00:25:44,798 –> 00:25:47,828
He’s been a curator for the
gaming and graphics design day.

535
00:25:48,278 –> 00:25:50,058
So our partners for that are Elupe.

536
00:25:51,308 –> 00:25:53,348
And tribe the comics collection.

537
00:25:54,743 –> 00:25:58,813
But for interior design, Eugene: workshop,
we have, Eugene: simplex favours shop.

538
00:25:58,843 –> 00:26:00,463
It’s like an interior design firm.

539
00:26:00,803 –> 00:26:03,923
Eugene: when I make some money next
year, I’m looking forward to inviting

540
00:26:03,923 –> 00:26:06,143
them to do stuff within my house.

541
00:26:06,143 –> 00:26:07,943
I like the idea of minimalism.

542
00:26:08,253 –> 00:26:13,503
I’m too cluttered, so I’d love for
someone to simply, empty out the

543
00:26:13,533 –> 00:26:15,903
space and make it much more proper.

544
00:26:16,143 –> 00:26:19,233
But yeah, the guys at simplex favours,
they will be running a workshop

545
00:26:19,233 –> 00:26:22,853
today on, on how to, Eugene: to, to
set up your living room on a budget,

546
00:26:23,263 –> 00:26:26,143
Eugene: and which better people to
come set up my living room, you know,

547
00:26:26,563 –> 00:26:27,243
Adrian: a lot of fun.

548
00:26:27,393 –> 00:26:27,903
Eugene: Yeah.

549
00:26:27,963 –> 00:26:30,693
And then, Eugene: We’ve also
had, Eugene: guys like SafeBoda,

550
00:26:30,713 –> 00:26:34,383
Eugene: through Michael Senyonjo
Eugene: their lead product.

551
00:26:35,053 –> 00:26:41,473
UX, UI person, Eugene: through Michael,
they allowed him to do the work, but also

552
00:26:41,533 –> 00:26:45,073
to recruit some of their team members
to participate in the whole process.

553
00:26:45,573 –> 00:26:50,783
Eugene: and also, Eugene: so Eugene:
Allianz Francais who given us space to

554
00:26:50,783 –> 00:26:55,713
run, Eugene: another UX UI workshop, but
also, Eugene: Goethe Zentrum, who gave us

555
00:26:55,713 –> 00:26:57,813
the same space to run another discussion.

556
00:26:58,203 –> 00:27:03,423
Eugene: And we also the Uganda Museum,
the guys who made it possible, we were the

557
00:27:03,423 –> 00:27:08,273
first ever event that they allowed for us
to, to, Eugene: the very first event that

558
00:27:08,273 –> 00:27:12,083
was allowed to use that space in their,
in the history of the Uganda museum.

559
00:27:12,083 –> 00:27:15,863
There’s, there’s other places that
they, they send people to, but we

560
00:27:15,863 –> 00:27:19,403
asked for that and they give it to
us, no questions, which are like,

561
00:27:19,973 –> 00:27:22,343
Adrian: yeah, good support
by the Uganda museum.

562
00:27:22,393 –> 00:27:25,393
Eugene: they give us a space that
they don’t often give out, which

563
00:27:25,393 –> 00:27:27,133
made us feel special and believed in.

564
00:27:27,493 –> 00:27:30,883
Adengo Architecture and Eugene: would
just like, when they came, they took

565
00:27:30,883 –> 00:27:34,313
the workshop of, Eugene: I guess they
would just come and say, we need this.

566
00:27:34,313 –> 00:27:37,793
And I’m like, I’ll be back Eugene:
The opening night and Yamasen and

567
00:27:37,793 –> 00:27:41,313
the restaurant, and then Diro who
like, Eugene: allowed us to use their

568
00:27:41,313 –> 00:27:46,573
facilities and, and were very cordial
and welcoming to us and, Eugene: and

569
00:27:46,613 –> 00:27:50,243
their willingness to have our public
art installation in their space.

570
00:27:50,243 –> 00:27:53,333
That that’s just really dope,
just as Kampala Design Week.

571
00:27:53,393 –> 00:27:57,513
Like we, Eugene: yamasen and allowed
us to put something there…awesome

572
00:27:57,853 –> 00:28:01,723
Eugene: and then the British council who,
Eugene: supported have been part of like.

573
00:28:03,088 –> 00:28:03,898
Everything.

574
00:28:03,898 –> 00:28:04,258
Really.

575
00:28:04,888 –> 00:28:05,308
Yeah.

576
00:28:05,578 –> 00:28:06,088
It really did.

577
00:28:06,088 –> 00:28:07,548
One page of everything, which was.

578
00:28:08,248 –> 00:28:09,088
Which is really cool.

579
00:28:09,448 –> 00:28:09,628
So

580
00:28:09,628 –> 00:28:12,778
Adrian: what are you doing with
the installation and all the

581
00:28:12,778 –> 00:28:15,118
objects from, from the exhibition?

582
00:28:15,478 –> 00:28:16,918
Eugene: Oh, there is one object.

583
00:28:17,488 –> 00:28:18,088
Eugene: but,

584
00:28:18,478 –> 00:28:24,538
Adrian: well, there were actually, I
think there were a few chairs, but also

585
00:28:24,628 –> 00:28:24,998
Eugene: the,

586
00:28:25,688 –> 00:28:26,058
hat

587
00:28:26,058 –> 00:28:28,828
Adrian: or another kind of
form of chair or some wall

588
00:28:28,828 –> 00:28:31,348
decoration that could feasibly.

589
00:28:31,918 –> 00:28:35,788
Be be used, put to use by some
people, but also, yeah, the

590
00:28:35,878 –> 00:28:37,768
installation itself, it’s quite large.

591
00:28:37,858 –> 00:28:38,248
Eugene: Yeah.

592
00:28:38,998 –> 00:28:44,878
So we, we have a dream of installing
it in the Makerere Art Gallery.

593
00:28:45,298 –> 00:28:46,648
Eugene: like the full process.

594
00:28:47,798 –> 00:28:50,108
Eugene: how the students were
thinking through the whole thing,

595
00:28:50,108 –> 00:28:52,898
but also the testimonials of their
students with their profiles.

596
00:28:53,238 –> 00:28:55,668
Eugene: the audio connect, the
audio, whatever is of that,

597
00:28:55,698 –> 00:28:57,648
the visual of what happened.

598
00:28:57,678 –> 00:29:02,658
We did commission a photographer who
went by to shoot it yesterday, and in

599
00:29:02,658 –> 00:29:04,398
two weeks we’ll have the results of that.

600
00:29:04,698 –> 00:29:10,368
And so we do aim to exhibit it Makerere
art gallery, whenever we can raise

601
00:29:10,368 –> 00:29:15,838
that funding so that we, Eugene: We
have that very, it’s that we know,

602
00:29:16,108 –> 00:29:17,848
we know what we want to achieve.

603
00:29:17,848 –> 00:29:21,278
We just, Eugene: waiting for
the right moment to move it.

604
00:29:21,938 –> 00:29:25,768
But in the meantime, Eugene: it’s
going to be at the Yamasen for

605
00:29:25,768 –> 00:29:29,108
the next two weeks, so we’ll be
asking people to go check it out.

606
00:29:29,378 –> 00:29:29,858
Adrian: Okay.

607
00:29:30,068 –> 00:29:30,248
Yeah.

608
00:29:30,278 –> 00:29:33,808
So you’re on the lookout for
galleries to partner with on potential

609
00:29:34,118 –> 00:29:34,918
Eugene: future things

610
00:29:35,678 –> 00:29:36,228
Yeah.

611
00:29:36,248 –> 00:29:37,068
I’m a photographer.

612
00:29:37,088 –> 00:29:42,308
I am looking for galleries to partner
with, once I survive this $700 thing,

613
00:29:42,788 –> 00:29:43,928
Adrian: you better not lose that.

614
00:29:43,958 –> 00:29:44,198
Eugene: Yeah, yeah.

615
00:29:44,198 –> 00:29:46,918
I am looking for that.

616
00:29:46,918 –> 00:29:50,168
The goal really is now I’m not
going to, I don’t want to do an

617
00:29:50,168 –> 00:29:51,758
exhibition that only ends here.

618
00:29:52,358 –> 00:29:52,778
Yeah.

619
00:29:52,838 –> 00:29:57,008
If I can move it around and the story
of unable to obey is shared much

620
00:29:57,008 –> 00:29:59,798
wider and perhaps leads to someone.

621
00:30:00,323 –> 00:30:01,793
Becoming disobedient.

622
00:30:02,523 –> 00:30:04,973
I’d be happy to do that.

623
00:30:05,393 –> 00:30:10,993
Adrian: So, Adrian: besides your monthly
events, Adrian: how, how can people

624
00:30:10,993 –> 00:30:14,923
within the community, if someone’s
a creative or a designer in Kampala.

625
00:30:15,403 –> 00:30:17,713
How can they be involved
in this community?

626
00:30:18,113 –> 00:30:21,503
Eugene: so, Eugene: a good way
to do that is to follow us on

627
00:30:21,503 –> 00:30:22,973
our social media at the moment.

628
00:30:23,223 –> 00:30:25,833
Eugene: I know that a couple of
things are going to change for

629
00:30:25,833 –> 00:30:27,423
us going into the next year.

630
00:30:27,793 –> 00:30:30,073
Eugene: so I can’t exactly say.

631
00:30:30,358 –> 00:30:33,928
Eugene: by this date and this time
we’ll be doing this, but for sure

632
00:30:33,928 –> 00:30:38,338
that we know that we tend to put out
information about what we’re going

633
00:30:38,338 –> 00:30:40,768
to do, at least three weeks to it.

634
00:30:41,218 –> 00:30:44,338
So please follow us on
all our social media.

635
00:30:44,678 –> 00:30:46,538
Eugene: channels, Kampala Design Week.

636
00:30:46,568 –> 00:30:49,808
That’s KAMPALA DESIGN WEEK Eugene: and
see where we’re at, what we’re up to.

637
00:30:50,228 –> 00:30:53,588
A lot of this content is going to
start off there and a lot of the

638
00:30:53,588 –> 00:30:56,138
conversation that we’re going to push
it, that’s all going to be driven off

639
00:30:56,138 –> 00:31:00,178
of there, Eugene: before it becomes,
Eugene: because for us, it’s the most.

640
00:31:01,288 –> 00:31:04,918
Currently the most affordable way to start
the message, to start getting the message

641
00:31:04,918 –> 00:31:10,588
out there so build the online momentum
and come execute it in the physical.

642
00:31:11,038 –> 00:31:12,328
That so far has been our move.

643
00:31:12,328 –> 00:31:12,568
Yeah.

644
00:31:12,838 –> 00:31:13,288
Adrian: Okay.

645
00:31:13,438 –> 00:31:15,718
So what, what sort of plans
have you got for next year?

646
00:31:15,848 –> 00:31:18,648
Eugene: I want to take a break.

647
00:31:19,678 –> 00:31:20,918
Eugene: I want to take a break then.

648
00:31:21,028 –> 00:31:21,838
Eugene: I dunno.

649
00:31:21,918 –> 00:31:24,508
I’m worried about speaking about
things that haven’t thought.

650
00:31:25,588 –> 00:31:26,368
Absolutely.

651
00:31:26,748 –> 00:31:27,268
I might say

652
00:31:27,728 –> 00:31:29,318
Adrian: So how about
reflecting on this year?

653
00:31:29,498 –> 00:31:30,818
What do you think’s gone well?

654
00:31:31,508 –> 00:31:35,558
Eugene: yeah, we, we, we could
have communicated better.

655
00:31:36,338 –> 00:31:40,068
Eugene: but as I understood my leadership
style, Eugene: so that allowed me to,

656
00:31:40,518 –> 00:31:45,618
in, towards closer to the, to the, to
the opening of the design week allowed me

657
00:31:45,618 –> 00:31:48,528
to be willing to move to people who are.

658
00:31:48,993 –> 00:31:50,973
Going to be much more responsive to it.

659
00:31:51,543 –> 00:31:54,573
Eugene: so that, that was both a good
thing, but also the, the awareness

660
00:31:54,573 –> 00:31:58,723
that you have to terminate particular,
Eugene: relationships was, yeah.

661
00:31:58,783 –> 00:32:05,023
Was, Eugene: it wasn’t, it wasn’t
particularly bad, but we just felt

662
00:32:05,023 –> 00:32:07,363
like, Eugene: A betrayal of social.

663
00:32:07,393 –> 00:32:07,723
Yeah.

664
00:32:07,753 –> 00:32:12,163
Like, Oh, I feel like we started year
1 together, but the dreams that we need

665
00:32:12,163 –> 00:32:17,033
to move towards do it doesn’t feel like
you’re stepping up to the challenge etc.

666
00:32:17,413 –> 00:32:21,603
Eugene: we have had a challenge
in, in crystal clear communicatio.

667
00:32:22,633 –> 00:32:24,193
We do need to improve on that.

668
00:32:24,693 –> 00:32:27,933
Eugene: and the speed at which
we, we put information out there.

669
00:32:28,473 –> 00:32:31,653
Eugene: The good things were like a lot
of the things we said we’re going to

670
00:32:31,653 –> 00:32:33,783
do, we’re going to do the workshops.

671
00:32:34,053 –> 00:32:41,203
We said we were going to register
people, Eugene: and call you and etc.

672
00:32:41,743 –> 00:32:44,173
But if you miss any of that,
we’re not taking you on.

673
00:32:44,623 –> 00:32:48,883
Cause we want, want to be able to,
cause most of our partners are giving

674
00:32:48,883 –> 00:32:50,443
us their space and their time for free.

675
00:32:50,863 –> 00:32:55,738
We want to be able to give them, people
who are committed to being there.

676
00:32:56,128 –> 00:32:56,488
Yeah.

677
00:32:56,548 –> 00:33:00,448
Eugene: so this year we did not take
anyone who didn’t sign up and we’re

678
00:33:00,448 –> 00:33:03,868
going to continue to do that, but
that was not a particularly popular.

679
00:33:04,868 –> 00:33:05,308
Eugene: yeah.

680
00:33:05,438 –> 00:33:08,318
Many of the events that are having,
I kept having people coming say,

681
00:33:08,558 –> 00:33:10,148
Hey, there’s this thing coming up.

682
00:33:10,178 –> 00:33:10,778
Can I come?

683
00:33:10,778 –> 00:33:12,098
And I’m like, did you register?

684
00:33:12,368 –> 00:33:13,058
No.

685
00:33:13,088 –> 00:33:14,858
By the time I just started, it was full.

686
00:33:15,818 –> 00:33:17,618
Yeah, that’s the goal.

687
00:33:20,258 –> 00:33:21,368
We’ll see you next year.

688
00:33:21,848 –> 00:33:24,308
Eugene: we did do a lot more
offline events this year.

689
00:33:24,608 –> 00:33:28,618
We had more touch points with, Eugene:
physical touch points with what.

690
00:33:29,008 –> 00:33:29,818
Tweet chats.

691
00:33:29,993 –> 00:33:33,233
Yeah, we did do tweet chats, but
we did that last year as well.

692
00:33:33,593 –> 00:33:36,413
And we realized that we only had
two offline events, the opening

693
00:33:36,413 –> 00:33:37,403
night and the closing night.

694
00:33:37,733 –> 00:33:40,823
And then the results there was
that, Eugene: it looked, it looked

695
00:33:40,823 –> 00:33:45,323
like we had done well online, but
really offline, we didn’t, we didn’t

696
00:33:45,323 –> 00:33:48,923
get any more designers joining the
community or anything like that.

697
00:33:49,313 –> 00:33:51,203
But this year that’s,
that’s been addressed.

698
00:33:51,683 –> 00:33:51,943
Eugene: Good.

699
00:33:51,973 –> 00:33:52,573
Yeah.

700
00:33:52,603 –> 00:33:54,523
Adrian: Those are nice events,
actually, I have to say.

701
00:33:55,003 –> 00:33:55,363
Yeah.

702
00:33:55,483 –> 00:33:59,833
I felt like there was a good, good
mix of people and evening events.

703
00:34:00,073 –> 00:34:00,633
Eugene: Yeah.

704
00:34:01,363 –> 00:34:01,813
Thank you.

705
00:34:03,103 –> 00:34:09,973
Adrian: so I wanted to ask about your
team and you, you’ve mentioned a few

706
00:34:09,973 –> 00:34:16,963
people, Adrian: and, and how do they kind
of fit what KDW is with what they do?

707
00:34:17,728 –> 00:34:19,318
With what they do in day to day.

708
00:34:22,018 –> 00:34:22,318
Eugene: Yeah.

709
00:34:22,318 –> 00:34:28,138
I think then maybe that’s the other
thing that this might be a difference

710
00:34:28,318 –> 00:34:29,968
between this team and the other one.

711
00:34:30,328 –> 00:34:34,768
Eugene: So a lot of the people in this
team have other, like me, have other

712
00:34:34,768 –> 00:34:36,868
things that they do to make a living.

713
00:34:37,238 –> 00:34:40,868
Eugene: but a lot of the people
like also believe in this fully.

714
00:34:41,318 –> 00:34:44,538
So, Eugene: even when we’ve had
cashflow challenges, Eugene:

715
00:34:44,538 –> 00:34:46,068
there’s been a situation of.

716
00:34:46,413 –> 00:34:48,393
I will front my, my bit of it.

717
00:34:48,603 –> 00:34:51,693
Let’s just keep track of the
accountabilities to that.

718
00:34:52,053 –> 00:34:54,573
And then at the appropriate
time, Eugene: everything will,

719
00:34:54,783 –> 00:34:56,673
will all get sorted out and etc.

720
00:34:56,773 –> 00:34:59,993
Eugene: and it was very encouraging,
Eugene: because it allowed us to

721
00:34:59,993 –> 00:35:04,073
run, to do a lot more Eugene: Yeah.

722
00:35:04,103 –> 00:35:06,443
Eugene: to do it together,
look more things happening.

723
00:35:06,863 –> 00:35:07,313
Eugene: Yeah.

724
00:35:08,013 –> 00:35:09,173
That’s how I place it.

725
00:35:10,103 –> 00:35:13,193
Adrian: Also, you’re very
passionate about design education

726
00:35:13,913 –> 00:35:18,193
and giving students access to you.

727
00:35:18,193 –> 00:35:22,493
You’re talking about more, more
programs and so on like that.

728
00:35:23,163 –> 00:35:23,843
Can you tell me

729
00:35:23,843 –> 00:35:24,113
Eugene: more?

730
00:35:24,713 –> 00:35:29,843
Eugene: It’s, it really is a, it’s a, it’s
a process that if we don’t intentionally

731
00:35:29,843 –> 00:35:33,823
pay attention to it, we are almost
always designing things, but sometimes

732
00:35:33,963 –> 00:35:36,203
up subconsciously, Eugene: that would be.

733
00:35:36,878 –> 00:35:38,288
That we don’t see its value.

734
00:35:38,738 –> 00:35:43,028
And sadly the thing about good design
is it becomes really invisible.

735
00:35:43,358 –> 00:35:45,938
You cannot see it until
maybe the chair is wobbly.

736
00:35:45,938 –> 00:35:48,068
That’s when you go like
who designed this thing?

737
00:35:48,398 –> 00:35:50,468
And in that context, the
pointer teacher interacting

738
00:35:50,468 –> 00:35:51,818
with designers in the negative.

739
00:35:52,088 –> 00:35:55,868
So the whole time that you come into
contact with design, it’s almost always

740
00:35:55,868 –> 00:35:58,328
from the complaining side of things.

741
00:35:58,658 –> 00:36:02,048
But what you’ve, like you demonstrated
to people that this like the

742
00:36:02,048 –> 00:36:03,578
thing about it is it’s a process.

743
00:36:03,948 –> 00:36:08,148
And that most as, as with most
processes, a lot of the way the

744
00:36:08,148 –> 00:36:09,948
thing is not, it’s not straight up.

745
00:36:09,948 –> 00:36:10,638
It’s not clear.

746
00:36:11,098 –> 00:36:13,708
Eugene: but also people love doctors.

747
00:36:14,578 –> 00:36:14,788
Okay.

748
00:36:14,788 –> 00:36:17,848
People allow doctors to dig into
them because they know these guys are

749
00:36:17,848 –> 00:36:20,638
putting the labor and time to do that.

750
00:36:21,388 –> 00:36:23,878
Eugene: and designers are
very much like that as well.

751
00:36:24,148 –> 00:36:27,318
But I don’t feel like, Eugene:
I don’t feel like people see the

752
00:36:27,318 –> 00:36:31,128
process and because they don’t see the
process, they don’t quite respect the

753
00:36:31,128 –> 00:36:32,838
product that this guy comes up with.

754
00:36:33,198 –> 00:36:37,128
And that means that you will
kind of stand the market.

755
00:36:37,128 –> 00:36:41,538
We’ll set a very low price for a really
awesome good, and that, that stuff

756
00:36:41,538 –> 00:36:43,338
is very demotivating for designers.

757
00:36:43,758 –> 00:36:48,228
So then they will move into something else
because, Eugene: I am not bound by my

758
00:36:48,228 –> 00:36:51,018
ethics or my, my love for these things.

759
00:36:51,468 –> 00:36:54,858
Like I can, I can, I can compromise
on this thing to make it work.

760
00:36:55,248 –> 00:36:58,458
But like with design, you know,
you have put, in the years you have

761
00:36:58,788 –> 00:37:03,348
putting the study on YouTube in
classes and stuff like that, and you

762
00:37:03,348 –> 00:37:04,278
know, the Eugene: that will work.

763
00:37:04,278 –> 00:37:05,118
And sometimes.

764
00:37:05,518 –> 00:37:09,118
Because no one has seen that process
or there’s no formal, formal way

765
00:37:09,118 –> 00:37:10,498
of checking out that process.

766
00:37:10,958 –> 00:37:14,498
Eugene: people are hesitant to, to
pay the appropriate prices, and I

767
00:37:14,498 –> 00:37:21,128
think that that’s why I’m very, I’m
passionate about design education.

768
00:37:21,868 –> 00:37:22,198
Yeah.

769
00:37:22,348 –> 00:37:26,298
Or maybe because I also like talking
too much, but no, it’s like I, I

770
00:37:26,308 –> 00:37:31,188
really love learning new things and
I think that there’s always, many

771
00:37:31,188 –> 00:37:33,508
designers I know are like that.

772
00:37:33,808 –> 00:37:35,078
They are ‘multi-potentialites’.

773
00:37:35,098 –> 00:37:39,898
In essence, they would want to be
painters and come back into the,

774
00:37:40,618 –> 00:37:44,158
and, you know, draw models of
awesome products, things like that.

775
00:37:44,633 –> 00:37:44,963
Yeah.

776
00:37:45,263 –> 00:37:45,413
And

777
00:37:45,413 –> 00:37:47,123
Adrian: that’s what you
found as well, right?

778
00:37:47,123 –> 00:37:49,103
You were a multifaceted creative.

779
00:37:49,623 –> 00:37:50,823
Eugene: yeah.

780
00:37:51,743 –> 00:37:52,713
Yeah.

781
00:37:52,713 –> 00:37:54,803
So I also do voiceovers.

782
00:37:54,873 –> 00:37:55,563
Adrian: Oh, really?

783
00:37:55,593 –> 00:37:55,803
Wow.

784
00:37:55,813 –> 00:37:57,083
That was a pitch.

785
00:37:57,103 –> 00:37:57,473
Yeah.

786
00:37:59,403 –> 00:37:59,913
Eugene: Yeah.

787
00:38:00,023 –> 00:38:00,533
Adrian: Okay.

788
00:38:00,893 –> 00:38:04,453
So, Adrian: but back to design,
Adrian: first of all, I wanted

789
00:38:04,453 –> 00:38:08,773
to touch on, on these guys who
we met at one of your events.

790
00:38:09,393 –> 00:38:10,043
‘Kirabo’

791
00:38:10,683 –> 00:38:11,103
Eugene: gift.

792
00:38:11,193 –> 00:38:11,643
Adrian: Yes.

793
00:38:11,643 –> 00:38:12,003
Gift.

794
00:38:12,003 –> 00:38:14,043
It means gift in Luganda.

795
00:38:14,163 –> 00:38:18,573
Yeah, it’s, it’s written with a K
like Kirabo, but pronounced cheater.

796
00:38:18,573 –> 00:38:18,843
Alba.

797
00:38:18,993 –> 00:38:19,413
Yes.

798
00:38:19,423 –> 00:38:19,923
Very nice.

799
00:38:20,193 –> 00:38:22,013
So, Adrian: can you tell
us a bit about them?

800
00:38:22,043 –> 00:38:23,213
Because we went to,

801
00:38:23,753 –> 00:38:25,043
Eugene: you’re going to tell me about

802
00:38:25,643 –> 00:38:25,903
Adrian: you.

803
00:38:25,903 –> 00:38:27,473
You haven’t been, you haven’t visited.

804
00:38:27,503 –> 00:38:28,223
Eugene: Oh,

805
00:38:28,253 –> 00:38:28,703
Adrian: there you go.

806
00:38:28,703 –> 00:38:35,363
So I probably should say they
have a cozy little workshop in.

807
00:38:35,833 –> 00:38:36,573
Kansanga.

808
00:38:36,713 –> 00:38:37,103
Eugene: Yeah,

809
00:38:37,193 –> 00:38:39,813
Adrian: that’s a very, there’s
a lot of Amharic around there.

810
00:38:39,843 –> 00:38:41,633
I believe it’s a very
Habesha neighborhood.

811
00:38:41,693 –> 00:38:42,503
Eugene: Yeah, yeah.

812
00:38:42,563 –> 00:38:42,893
Adrian: Yeah.

813
00:38:43,013 –> 00:38:45,773
So it was very nice.

814
00:38:45,803 –> 00:38:46,403
Very nice.

815
00:38:46,843 –> 00:38:51,883
Adrian: seems like Christine, the
founder, is running an organization

816
00:38:51,883 –> 00:38:53,503
where people are actually.

817
00:38:54,508 –> 00:39:00,688
Not just learning the skills,
but also learning how to create.

818
00:39:00,868 –> 00:39:03,118
So they’re actually now
designing the product.

819
00:39:03,148 –> 00:39:04,528
They’re coming up with designs.

820
00:39:04,968 –> 00:39:11,268
Adrian: I saw everything from,
well, these little snowman and

821
00:39:11,268 –> 00:39:14,338
a Christmas tree decorations.

822
00:39:14,358 –> 00:39:14,688
Yeah.

823
00:39:16,023 –> 00:39:16,323
Yeah.

824
00:39:16,563 –> 00:39:17,793
Nice, nice detailing.

825
00:39:18,493 –> 00:39:19,893
Adrian: and a good cause,

826
00:39:20,403 –> 00:39:25,953
Eugene: and I know Christine is a
detailed oriented person, I believe you.

827
00:39:26,283 –> 00:39:26,553
Adrian: Yeah.

828
00:39:27,573 –> 00:39:34,533
So tell me quickly, have you got any
design literature recommended reading or

829
00:39:34,533 –> 00:39:40,023
anything that you’re reading right now
that you’d like to get people to notice.

830
00:39:43,083 –> 00:39:45,423
Eugene: I’m not really
actively read in a long time.

831
00:39:46,323 –> 00:39:46,653
Yeah.

832
00:39:47,103 –> 00:39:50,063
So I’ve been, I’ve been reading
research papers on sound.

833
00:39:51,543 –> 00:39:52,203
Adrian: that’s good.

834
00:39:52,233 –> 00:39:53,073
That’s interesting.

835
00:39:53,103 –> 00:39:53,523
Tell me.

836
00:39:53,553 –> 00:39:55,803
Eugene: So, Eugene:
like the power of sound.

837
00:39:58,568 –> 00:40:02,828
Some guy, Eugene: who has studied
a particular square in Egypt and

838
00:40:02,828 –> 00:40:07,118
how they created, Eugene: it was so
noisy in the, in like that square.

839
00:40:07,358 –> 00:40:11,448
And what they wanted to create was a sort
of, Eugene: a sanctuary of sorts, Eugene:

840
00:40:11,448 –> 00:40:15,948
and they wanted to make a really natural,
but like, just how adding a waterfall.

841
00:40:16,178 –> 00:40:19,718
Eugene: well, and then developing
a waterfall over that, like changed

842
00:40:19,748 –> 00:40:22,658
that because the waterfall sort of
drowned out to the traffic noise.

843
00:40:23,018 –> 00:40:26,018
And so people could go sit
next to the waterfall and

844
00:40:26,408 –> 00:40:27,728
there would be this all green.

845
00:40:27,758 –> 00:40:31,388
So it was green with trees already, but
too many cars making a lot of nights.

846
00:40:31,688 –> 00:40:34,868
And his gaze counted out to that noise
with a waterfall and those, so like

847
00:40:34,868 –> 00:40:39,068
then the power of natural sounds versus
mechanical sounds and how, how they have

848
00:40:39,098 –> 00:40:41,558
the ability to, to influence our mood.

849
00:40:42,008 –> 00:40:42,368
Yeah.

850
00:40:42,398 –> 00:40:44,438
And the power of
architecture in that context.

851
00:40:44,648 –> 00:40:48,278
So the sound design and architecture
and that, those are the,

852
00:40:48,578 –> 00:40:49,758
that’s what I’ve been studying.

853
00:40:50,018 –> 00:40:50,888
Interesting.

854
00:40:50,978 –> 00:40:54,308
Adrian: Is that something for
professional instrumentation.

855
00:40:54,578 –> 00:40:58,298
Eugene: Yes it is, but that
project is not ready yet.

856
00:40:58,418 –> 00:40:58,978
Adrian: Okay.

857
00:40:59,348 –> 00:41:00,968
We’ll move swiftly onwards.

858
00:41:01,058 –> 00:41:01,418
Eugene: Yeah.

859
00:41:01,868 –> 00:41:02,228
Adrian: Great.

860
00:41:02,438 –> 00:41:02,858
Any.

861
00:41:03,638 –> 00:41:05,308
Adrian: and anything else
Adrian: you’d like to add?

862
00:41:05,378 –> 00:41:06,098
Tell us about,

863
00:41:06,668 –> 00:41:09,748
Eugene: so, Eugene: I went
you Adrian, this guy here.

864
00:41:09,988 –> 00:41:14,018
First visit, Eugene: to Nairobi
for the NIDEC, Eugene: when I run

865
00:41:14,028 –> 00:41:17,078
into you at the top of the stairs
and said, Hey, this is Eugene.

866
00:41:17,378 –> 00:41:21,278
And I want to start Kampala Design Week,
and you just went like, Oh, go for it out.

867
00:41:21,428 –> 00:41:21,968
Come on.

868
00:41:22,238 –> 00:41:22,778
Go for it.

869
00:41:23,658 –> 00:41:26,213
Is that how sound?

870
00:41:26,243 –> 00:41:26,693
Yes.

871
00:41:26,723 –> 00:41:27,503
Yes, you do.

872
00:41:27,983 –> 00:41:28,313
Wow.

873
00:41:28,973 –> 00:41:29,333
Yeah.

874
00:41:29,363 –> 00:41:33,413
You sounded like you just had
red bull five seconds ago.

875
00:41:33,908 –> 00:41:37,218
Every day, every day, like, Oh my god.

876
00:41:37,418 –> 00:41:37,988
How?

877
00:41:38,738 –> 00:41:39,308
Eugene: yeah.

878
00:41:39,428 –> 00:41:43,148
And, and, and that, that energy
and enthusiasm and even all the

879
00:41:43,148 –> 00:41:47,508
conversations we’ve had sometimes in
points of crisis, and I’m like, yo man.

880
00:41:47,828 –> 00:41:48,698
I don’t know what to do.

881
00:41:48,698 –> 00:41:51,128
How to deal with that and
how do we work around this?

882
00:41:51,398 –> 00:41:52,568
That’s been really cool, man.

883
00:41:52,598 –> 00:41:54,038
So thank you.

884
00:41:54,098 –> 00:41:55,688
That’s, that’s, that’s what I have to say.

885
00:41:56,573 –> 00:41:56,993
Well, thank

886
00:41:56,993 –> 00:42:01,883
Adrian: you for for the kind words, and
thank you for hosting us here in Kampala

887
00:42:02,483 –> 00:42:05,273
for letting me use not even your couch.

888
00:42:05,273 –> 00:42:08,183
I believe it’s your
bedroom, one of the bedrooms

889
00:42:08,213 –> 00:42:08,723
Eugene: line of that.

890
00:42:09,563 –> 00:42:10,943
Adrian: I won’t reveal the layout.

891
00:42:10,943 –> 00:42:14,993
I know you’re a private person, so
we won’t go into, into the layout.

892
00:42:15,023 –> 00:42:15,983
Eugene: Live in bedrooms.

893
00:42:15,983 –> 00:42:16,463
Of course.

894
00:42:16,493 –> 00:42:19,523
Adrian: I know, but I think being
creatives, we tend to sleep on our own

895
00:42:19,523 –> 00:42:20,333
Eugene: couches.

896
00:42:20,363 –> 00:42:20,723
Yeah.

897
00:42:20,753 –> 00:42:22,223
As more than, yeah.

898
00:42:22,473 –> 00:42:23,143
So

899
00:42:23,143 –> 00:42:25,723
Adrian: I think it’s, it’s quite
entertaining when you go to another

900
00:42:25,723 –> 00:42:28,843
guy’s house and also see they’re
sleeping on their own couch because

901
00:42:28,853 –> 00:42:29,213
Eugene: it’s,

902
00:42:29,363 –> 00:42:29,833
Adrian: it’s like,

903
00:42:31,243 –> 00:42:33,463
Eugene: get up, go to the
laptop and go back to work.

904
00:42:33,463 –> 00:42:33,613
Yeah.

905
00:42:33,613 –> 00:42:34,093
Yes,

906
00:42:34,233 –> 00:42:34,873
Adrian: definitely.

907
00:42:34,933 –> 00:42:35,143
Yeah.

908
00:42:36,533 –> 00:42:37,103
Eugene: Interesting.

909
00:42:37,103 –> 00:42:38,393
I didn’t know that was a thing.

910
00:42:40,043 –> 00:42:42,153
Adrian: Well, so Adrian:
you’ve mentioned you have social

911
00:42:42,153 –> 00:42:43,683
media, you have the community.

912
00:42:43,953 –> 00:42:47,373
How can people follow you and
where will people be able to

913
00:42:47,373 –> 00:42:51,273
find all these cool videos and
podcasts that you’ve been creating?

914
00:42:51,523 –> 00:42:53,953
Eugene: stuff like, Eugene: the
write ups and the photos, we’ll

915
00:42:53,953 –> 00:42:55,903
be doing that on social media.

916
00:42:57,313 –> 00:42:59,593
Adrian: So that’s Kampala Design Week

917
00:42:59,623 –> 00:43:01,593
Eugene: KampalaDesignWeek.com.

918
00:43:02,803 –> 00:43:10,433
Kampala Design Week on Twitter on
Instagram, Eugene: YouTube and Facebook.

919
00:43:11,683 –> 00:43:18,303
kampaladesignweek@gmail.com or
hello@kampaladesignweek.com.

920
00:43:19,753 –> 00:43:21,693
Adrian: KampalaDesignWeek.com.

921
00:43:21,853 –> 00:43:22,093
Yup.

922
00:43:22,633 –> 00:43:24,793
Well, Eugene, thank you so much.

923
00:43:24,793 –> 00:43:25,123
It’s been a

924
00:43:25,123 –> 00:43:25,573
pleasure.